interview

<p><em><strong>This interview with Jean-Christophe Garnier took place over Zoom in September 2024.</strong></em></p> <p><strong>What were you doing before becoming a vigneron?</strong></p> <p>I&rsquo;m from <glossary term="Brittany" title="197">Brittany</glossary> and first got into wine working as a&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Sommelier" title="969">sommelier</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> It was my career for about a decade. I eventually decided to open a wine bar with a friend,&nbsp;but before doing so I told him I wanted to take a year off to learn more about working in the vines. All of my wine education up until that point had come from books, so I wanted to experience things first-hand.</p> <p>In 1998, I enrolled in a <glossary term="Viticulture" title="1103">viticultural</glossary> school not too far from <glossary term="Anjou" title="105">Anjou</glossary> and was lucky enough to find myself apprenticing with Mark Angeli at Ferme de la Sansoni&egrave;rre. From the start, he was very supportive and insistant that I start my own <glossary term="Estate" title="427">estate</glossary> in&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Anjou" title="105">Anjou</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> After finishing my program, I went back to restaurants for a bit but ultimately decided to come back here to start making wine myself. That was in 2002.</p> <p>Mark helped me find 2.5 <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> to launch my project. I then found a house in the village of <glossary term="Saint-Lambert-du-Lattay" title="983">Saint-Lambert-du-Lattay</glossary> for my family with an adjoining <glossary term="Cellar" title="254">cellar</glossary> for my wines. And from the strong <glossary term="Viticulture" title="1103">viticultural</glossary> community in the village, I was able to grow and develop the <glossary term="Estate" title="427">estate</glossary> to what it is today.</p> <p><strong>Today, Anjou is arguably the most dynamic region in the Loire for newer producers just starting out. When you started it was a very different climate. What made you want to make wine in Anjou?</strong></p> <p>First and foremost, <glossary term="Anjou" title="105">Anjou</glossary> is relatively close to&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Brittany" title="197">Brittany</glossary><span>!</span></span></span> And I&rsquo;d been selling <glossary term="Anjou" title="105">Anjou</glossary> wines for quite a few years as a&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Sommelier" title="969">sommelier</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> There was also the strong support from Mark Angeli and what I suppose has become the first wave of forward-thinking <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vignerons</glossary> from that time (Mosse, Leroy, Baudoin&hellip;) There were also lots of cheap vines to recuperate and room to build out <glossary term="Cellar" title="254">cellars</glossary> as well.</p> <p>Working with <glossary term="Chenin Blanc" title="281">Chenin</glossary> -a grape with incredible versatility- was also an exciting prospect. <glossary term="Anjou" title="105">Anjou</glossary> is also a region where you have access to lots of different grapes, both red and white, as well as a fascinating variety of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Terroir" title="1026">terroirs</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> And it&rsquo;s close to&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Brittany" title="197">Brittany</glossary><span>!</span></span></span></p> <p><strong>Did you make appellation wines in the beginning?</strong></p> <p>Yes I did. At the time it was very rare for <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vignerons</glossary> to intentionally <glossary term="Declassification" title="383">de-classify</glossary> their wines.</p> <p><strong>And what were those early wines?</strong></p> <p>I started with 2.3&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary><span>:</span></span></span> 80 <glossary term="Are" title="1208">ares</glossary> of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Grolleau" title="513">Grolleau Gris</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> the rest in&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Chenin Blanc" title="281">Chenin Blanc</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> From the beginning I made dry whites, but in a different style than today. At the time everyone picked in &ldquo;<glossary term="pouri plein" title="1493">pourri-plein</glossary>&rdquo;, where we&rsquo;d intentionally seek some over-maturity in the grapes. This picking style makes for very interesting <glossary term="Aromatic" title="120">aromatics</glossary> in a wine&rsquo;s youth, but is also prone to heavy <glossary term="Oxidation" title="754">oxydation</glossary> and not very beneficial for&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Aging" title="74">aging</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p>This technique for <glossary term="Chenin Blanc" title="281">Chenin Blanc</glossary> is a style really pioneered by Mark Angeli around 1995. 2005 was the nail in the coffin for picking this way, as the years were getting violently solar and it was impossible to make stable wine with slightly <glossary term="Botrytis/Noble Rot" title="181">botrytised</glossary> grapes without using&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Sulfites" title="993">sulfites</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p>I&rsquo;ve never understood why people feel the need to systematically add <glossary term="Sulfites" title="993">sulfur</glossary> to wine,&nbsp;so I started picking at optimal ripeness instead. Today, I&rsquo;d even posit I look to pick at a slight under-maturity as to keep&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Acidity" title="71">acidity</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> But recently I&rsquo;ve decided I want to go back to a slightly riper style. It means a bit more alcohol, but you get more complexity. I suppose it&rsquo;s being in the middle of both extremes I&rsquo;ve worked with in the past.</p> <p><strong>You just brought up sulfites. Where does your conviction to not use S02 come from?</strong></p> <p>As I mentioned earlier, all of my wine knowledge originally came from books. It was all about regions, grapes,&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Terroir" title="1026">terroirs</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> etc&hellip; I had zero notions on how to actually make wine until I started doing it myself. <glossary term="Sulfites" title="993">Sulfur</glossary> seemed to be this very important and necessary additive in winemaking, and I never really understood why. So very quickly, I started not using any.</p> <p><strong>So you weren&rsquo;t already a proselytizer of sans souffre wines while working as a sommelier?</strong></p> <p>I sold some but there were very few readily available when I worked in restaurants. I recall some <glossary term="Côtes du Rhône" title="372">C&ocirc;tes du Rh&ocirc;ne</glossary> producers&hellip; For us the focus was more on <glossary term="Artisinal" title="122">artisanal</glossary> production from small, independent&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vignerons</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p><strong>What were your first &ldquo;aha&rdquo; moments with wine?</strong></p> <p>I worked in <glossary term="Banyuls" title="135">Banyuls</glossary> and <glossary term="Collioure" title="319">Collioure</glossary> for a little while. While there, I met some of the local <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vignerons</glossary> and also travelled in other parts of the <glossary term="Roussillon" title="880">Roussillon</glossary> and&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Languedoc" title="579">Languedoc</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> The <glossary term="Languedoc" title="579">Languedoc</glossary> in particular was going through a pretty exciting revolutionary period in the 1990&rsquo;s. It was during that period that I really began to understand that good wine came from well farmed vines first and foremost. And this feeling was amplified when I did my apprenticeship in&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Anjou" title="105">Anjou</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> So yeah I&rsquo;d say the <glossary term="Languedoc" title="579">Languedoc</glossary> and then the&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Loire Valley" title="602">Loire</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p><strong>We touched on your beginnings in Anjou. Can you run us through the evolution of the estate over the years?</strong></p> <p>I started in 2002 with 2.5&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> In 2006 I got to 4.5 <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> which grew to five <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> by 2008. Then in 2010, I met a young man who was ready to invest in vines but didn&rsquo;t want to start as full-time <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vigneron</glossary>&nbsp;for a few years, so he needed someone to farm it in the interim. It was a <glossary term="Plot" title="1133">plot</glossary> of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Gamay" title="478">Gamay</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> <glossary term="Pineau d'Aunis" title="799">Pineau d&rsquo;Aunis</glossary> and&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Cabernet Franc" title="216">Cabernet Franc</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> Up until then, I basically made all white wine, with the <glossary term="Grolleau" title="513">Grolleau</glossary> destined for sweet&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Rosé/Rosato" title="871">ros&eacute;</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p>Fellow <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vignerons</glossary> told me that making red wine was a good opportunity;&nbsp;at the time in France, you&rsquo;d sell three bottles of red for every bottle of white. But I still wasn&rsquo;t convinced about making red wine: in fact it strayed from my original vision. In the end I rather enjoyed the experience, particularly with <glossary term="Gamay" title="478">Gamay</glossary> and&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Pineau d'Aunis" title="799">Pineau d&rsquo;Aunis</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> I worked those vines from 2010 to 2020. The guy eventually decided not to become a <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vigneron</glossary> and sold the vines to a young upstart for the 2021&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Harvest" title="521">harvest</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p>Since I knew I wasn&rsquo;t going to be able to use those vines anymore and had built a reputation for my reds, I&rsquo;d been actively seeking out new <glossary term="Parcel" title="760">parcels</glossary> to buy. I was able to find a good amount of land, some bare, some where I had to rip out and&nbsp;replant. I&rsquo;ve planted or replanted mostly <glossary term="Pineau d'Aunis" title="799">Pineau d&rsquo;Aunis,</glossary> but also more <glossary term="Chenin Blanc" title="281">Chenin</glossary> in certain sectors. In 2017, I jumped to nine&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> then in 2021 I bought another <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectare</glossary> and currently find myself farming 10. But much of surface consists of very young vines as I had to rip out and replant a lot. Some are just really starting to produce. It&rsquo;s been a huge amount of work.</p> <p><strong>Are you certified organic?</strong></p> <p>I&rsquo;ve been <glossary term="Organic Certification" title="260">certified</glossary> <glossary term="Organic" title="746">organic</glossary> since the very beginning.</p> <p><strong>Can you give us a breakdown of the grapes you farm?</strong></p> <p>I farm six <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Chenin Blanc" title="281">Chenin Blanc</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> with an additional <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectare</glossary> of <glossary term="Chenin Blanc" title="281">Chenin</glossary> planted in vines too young to produce. Then there is one <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectare</glossary> of <glossary term="Cabernet Franc" title="216">Cabernet Franc</glossary> with a tiny bit of <glossary term="Cabernet Sauvignon" title="217">Cabernet Sauvignon</glossary> (which I plan to rip out and replant at some point). There is 0.5 <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Grolleau" title="513">Grolleau Gris</glossary><span>, 0.5 <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary></span></span></span><span class="zalup"><span>&nbsp;</span></span>of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Savagnin" title="922">Savagnin</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> 1.5 <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> of&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Pineau d'Aunis" title="799">Pineau d&rsquo;Aunis</glossary><span>.</span></span></span> <glossary term="Grolleau" title="513">Grolleau</glossary> and <glossary term="Gamay" title="478">Gamay</glossary> are about two&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p>Then there is the <glossary term="Négociant" title="729">n&eacute;gociant</glossary> project which comes from a nearby two <glossary term="Hectare" title="523">hectares</glossary> of red grapes planted on&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Loam" title="1291">loamy</glossary><span>-</span></span></span><glossary term="Clay" title="301">clay</glossary> soils.</p> <p><strong>What about the evolution of the cuv&eacute;es? Was the focus always on single vineyard wines?</strong></p> <p>I&rsquo;ve been doing <glossary term="Single Vineyard Bottling" title="959">single-parcel</glossary> wines from the beginning. For me it was pretty important. But over the years and when faced with difficult&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Vintage" title="1109">vintages</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> I&rsquo;ve sometimes&nbsp;felt obliged to combine <glossary term="Parcel" title="760">parcels</glossary> together (ex: La Roche-B&eacute;zigon).</p> <p>In 2005, I started making B&eacute;zigon. Then La Roche, then Les Tailles, which is the name of the&nbsp;<glossary term="Lieu-Dit" title="594">lieu-dit</glossary> where the <glossary term="Cabernet Franc" title="216">Cabernet</glossary> is planted. Then Rouchefert, and finally Justices and 13 Vents, the latter two planted in the neighboring village of Saint-Aubin-de-Luign&eacute;.</p> <p><strong>Who were your first customers?</strong></p> <p>Parisians! I participated in some of the very first&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Dive Bouteille" title="395">Dive Bouteilles</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> and that&rsquo;s where I created my network of Paris <glossary term="Caviste" title="253">cavistes</glossary> and restaurants. There was already a lot of bistros serving these types of wines at the time.</p> <p>My first importer was Japan. No surprise there!</p> <p><strong>What inspired your labels?</strong></p> <p>The snake is the Ouroboros, a famous symbol, one of the first symbols of civilization. It&rsquo;s similar to the ying and the yang, the cycle of the seasons repeating themselves.</p> <p><strong>When did you decide to stop making appellation wine?</strong></p> <p>In 2006. I made <glossary term="Appellation" title="113">appellation</glossary> wines through 2005, but found it increasingly difficult having to justify my work to the the panels. Here I am attempting to express the most transparent expression of a grape from this specific place, but was getting challenged for too much alcohol, too much color, that I refused to <glossary term="Chaptalisation" title="270">chaptalize</glossary>&hellip; It felt so out of touch.</p> <p>2006 was also the first year I&rsquo;d gone 100% with no&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Sulfites" title="993">S02</glossary><span>,</span></span></span> and based on past experience I knew there was absolutely no point presenting my wines. Honestly, I am still vexed that the <glossary term="AOC" title="108">AOC</glossary> cares so little about people like me who prioritize farming and expressing <glossary term="Terroir" title="1026">terroir</glossary> to the best of their ability.</p> <p><strong>Having been part of those early Dive Bouteilles, how do you feel about the state of our little world of wine in 2024?</strong></p> <p>Overall I think we&rsquo;ve seen some truly great progress in the last 20 or so years. I do however feel that the bubble has burst. What represented something new (of course nothing is ever truly new), an alternative path to <glossary term="Viticulture" title="1103">viticulture</glossary> and winemaking 20 years ago ended up not being just a little ripple, but a tidal wave in moving&nbsp;things forward.</p> <p>Think about all the <glossary term="Cave Cooperative" title="252">cooperators</glossary> who broke away and started producing their own wines. The children of <glossary term="Vigneron/Vignaiolo" title="1089">vignerons</glossary> who took a complete 180 from past generations. The young people coming from totally unrelated fields to start wineries. It&rsquo;s incredible!&nbsp; But this boom cycle had to end at some point. The sheer amount of events taking place around the <glossary term="Dive Bouteille" title="395">Dive Bouteille</glossary> this year proves to me that being visible and commercially viable is becoming increasingly difficult.</p> <p><strong>It&rsquo;s true. Five years ago, I felt there was this almost infinite, utopia-like energy going around. That consumers were so welcoming and excited for this type of philosophy, and that there was infinite room for things to keep evolving positively. It was beautiful and inspiring.</strong></p> <p>I agree. But as we see now, it was relatively naif and there were some major missteps along the way. Many completely stopped caring about the quality of the wines themselves. In my early days, I made a lot of mistakes and learned from those; it was a given that there were certain things you just couldn&rsquo;t bottle and sell. And that helped me get better.</p> <p>In the past few years, you could really taste the lack of experience in some of these newer wineries. And of course that created tensions, as no one was really checking these producers. A lot of these wines weren&rsquo;t sold on much merit other than being&nbsp;<span class="zalup"><span><glossary term="Natural WIne" title="708">natural</glossary><span>.</span></span></span></p> <p>But again, I think we come out of this richer. Because we explored and pushed those boundaries. So yes, the bubble has burst. But we&rsquo;ve gained experience. Overall, more good wine is being made, and people are always going to want to drink good wine. It may just be&nbsp;impossible to taste or drink and&nbsp;sell them all!</p>